Connecting you with todays arts leaders.

Ep. 4: Lana Whiskeyjack

INTRO 

Welcome to Artful Conversations – a podcast about arts and cultural management. Annetta Latham and guest hosts interview leaders who help shape the world of arts and culture. We share their stories, their insights and observations. This season has been brought to you with the support of the faculty of fine arts and communications at MacEwan University.  

HEATHER:  Welcome to Artful Conversations. I'm your host, Heather Fitzsimmons Frey and today my guest is Lana Whiskeyjack. Lana Whiskeyjack is a multidisciplinary treaty nêhiyaw (Cree) scholartist from Saddle Lake Cree Nation and assistant professor at the Faculty of Arts, Women's and Gender Studies at the University of Alberta.  

Lana integrates Indigenous ways of knowing and being with methods of Western academia in her scholarship, research and course development. Her research, writing and creativity focus on Indigenous sexual health, economic security, transforming intergenerational trauma to resilience and Indigenous visual literacy.  

Her current research project explores issues around the theme of reconnecting to the spirit of nêhiyawêwin (Cree language)’, nêhiyaw diverse gender, worldviews and iskwêw woman body relation to the cosmic and earth within 13 moon teachings through arts-based practices.  

She's featured in a documentary about confronting and transcending historical trauma through her art-based practice titled Lana Gets Her Talk.  

Welcome, Lana. Thank you so much for joining us.  

LANA:  Thank you. It's wonderful to be here and talk about art.  

HEATHER:  Which is one of the most wonderful things to be talking about. Right. So, your website bio, you refer to yourself as an arts actionist and a scholarist, and both of those words are new to me. So, can you start by defining what it means to be an arts actionist?  

LANA:  Yes, that term actually came from one of my mentors who is a renowned, Denesuline, artist from Cold Lake, First Nation. His name is Alex Janvier. And he's, when I worked at Blue Quills, he would come and visit a lot, host some art workshops, and I was his helper. And we, of course, talked a lot about art, but also about his experiences when he attended Blue Quills, when it was an Indian residential school. And so, he called me an arts actionist because of the work we were doing at Blue Quills of using art to confront the impacts of Indian residential schools, not just on those who attended, but the children such as myself, of those who attended. And so, Art really is this tool and powerful language tool, in a sense, to transform those stories, those narratives of help us work through some of the what we carry from the impacts of that colonial and violent history.  

And a scholartist when I actually moved from Blue Quills where I taught for over 12 years and then moved into University of Alberta, a very Western academic institution, I was told I did a lot of arts-based practices, art as inquiry, like there were so many language around and titles and labels for what I did, which I never knew. I just loved that how art was my way of kind of like connecting my left to my right brain, helping me to think more critically about broader issues and how it pertained to my life. And it was just this, this important form of communicating that really helped me come into my voice, which you'll see my process in the documentary of, of Lana Gets Her Talk, which it's out, which makes me laugh at that title. So, when I when I started, of course, embarking on my scholarship at the university plus my research, I used art-based practices and it just seeing that scholartist was a title that kind of most resonate. Plus, it was it just sounds like a fun word that really reflects what I do as a visual storyteller and kind of that evolving from being an arts actionist within my own community to being a scholar scholartist in the university.  

HEATHER:  How wonderful that those two names come from two different spaces where you've been working and thinking and creating. That's really special. It sounds a little bit to me like arts action relates to another term that I've heard survivants intervention. That's a term that my friend Jill Carter uses to talk about the way that people are creating creative work to make change or make comments on community. Is that something you feel like you're doing as well?  

LANA:  Oh, definitely, yes. And within again, like how we as Indigenous people, I always felt we were so visually. Had high literacy during our visual communication. I've always been surrounded by artists from my grandmother who sang songs and made quilts to my mother, who worked primarily in traditional arts from in fish scale to hide work to especially beading. And so, art was just one of those practices that really brought us together and having a conversation or visiting or teaching like it was such an important pedagogical tool that I continued to use in my own, in my, in my teaching and in my research work and just mobilizing knowledge.  

HEATHER:  Wow. And mobilizing knowledge from these powerful women in your life, too.  

LANA:  Definitely.  

HEATHER:  I think I was going to start moving to asking about them because of your comment about iskwêw and body relations to the cosmic. But before we get there, I'd like to give our listeners a little bit more background. So could you help by talking about the significance of receiving your PhD from the University of Blue Quills, which was a formal Indian residential school and is now an Indigenous governed educational institution. And just talk about how maybe UNBQ has impacted your art making.  

LANA:  Absolutely. When I began teaching at Blue Quills it was actually in an Indigenous artist program which really focused on the artists, the person creating and co-creating, because we really try to work in community and circle and in relation. And so Blue Quills, you know, it hasn't changed much since it the building was created in 1931 and I've had two generations of my own womb connections attend that school. And to see, you know, in my art class and storage room is actually in the girls’ shower space like the washroom. And, and so the shower space, like even in the shower had the kiln for when we did, of course, cooked baked our clay works and it still had like the numbers where children would go and put their toothbrush and their cap and their clothing before they took a shower. And just of course, I had family who attended. I had family who came there as students of the program. And I would always hear like different stories and how that space was such, where so much trauma actually happened, you know, especially with young women in their bodies of where they had no body autonomy. And so, yeah, without getting into the pain of happening there just that how much you know those I was able to actually connect to some of my own issues as nêhiyaw as a four-body person of this land and as an iskwêw as a woman. And how not realizing how much I actually carried the impacts of that school in my own body, in my own mind. And so, you know, it's been it's the first Indigenous owned and governed educational institution.  

They really prioritized, especially in the doctorate program, our own ways of knowing and being, of starting in ceremony, of prioritizing, learning our language, our history, our songs and our oral traditions and our ways of cultural expression and material were important parts of, of grounding that work that we did within the program. So how it attended my art is well, I mean, it was such a transformative program and at that time was actually working on a research project, sexual health research project within my community and how we've normalized gender and sexual violence. So the epidemiologist, Dr. Dionne Gesink from the University of Toronto, who was leading that research project. I was the one who helped connect her to community members who would talk about sexual health. And it was still pretty much a taboo within our community. So, but because I knew I'm from the community, I knew all of the kind of the grandmothers and matriarchs who wouldn't who would contribute to the research truthfully and courageously. And so, she told me, you really need to you really need to, like, work on a doctorate and help. You need to be leading this kind of research, not me, as, you know, as a settler in Canada here. So, she, so I did that. I applied for the doctorate program. We were the second cohort and we started in ceremony. And in my offerings in that ceremony, I wanted clarity of what I should focus on and especially continuing that work around ending gender and sexual violence. And so, what I've learned, and this is how powerful and transformative are ways of knowing and being is, is that I first had to deal with my own intergenerational trauma, historical trauma that I carry.  

I had to learn how to come into my own voice and narrative. And so I began that by exploring my own trauma through art. And that's when I began creating a series on three generations of how, you know, of, you know, as a child of a mother and a granddaughter of Nohkom who attended. Of every, of looking to confront and understand what happened and how that in turned impacted me and in my disconnection to culture, to my language, to my history and especially even how we carry trauma in our wombs through as mothers and grandmothers. And so my art is always focused on, on womanhood, on iskwêw and really because there's not a lot. We've our society, patriarchal society has not included the stories of our mothers and grandmothers. And so that was something I really needed to learn how to do in order to carry my own story with courage and with compassion so I can help carry the stories of others when I'm leading research projects and in my own artwork, and even within classrooms, and which extends now not only to Indigenous students but to non-Indigenous students as well.  

HEATHER:  Wow. Lot’s of thought-provoking things there. One of the questions that I had was how being in that space in those in that former shower area would have impacted the creative work itself?  

LANA:  Yeah. Speaking of my mentor, Alex Janvier, who attended that same school. When we talked about, you know, him as a father and grandfather now and those. kind of like that knowledge transfer of what we need to carry on for the next generation is. And especially as an artist, he said that you know Lana if you want to paint something ugly because I was working on these series, he's like, you need to make it beautiful. And in a sense, that's like transforming that. That medicine of harm into medicine of support. And so that was really important for me to hear of that we are not defined by the trauma that we've experienced, but that we actually have the power to transform that to become our own medicine, to help us move forward in a good, kind, loving, compassionate way. But it's really important to also acknowledge and move through that anger, that pain, the rage that comes when you're confronting trauma and these systemic racism in violence on Indigenous people. It's really easy to kind of like get stuck in that. So part of getting towards beauty in kindness and compassion is also learning how to transform the anger that comes when you're looking at the systemic violence.  

HEATHER:  I'm really struck by how you're talking about medicine and the work that you do as medicine, as transformative medicine. And I know that one of the things that you're really interested in is also ceremony and how your art can be ceremony. And I definitely don't want to put words into your mouth, but I'm wondering if those ideas are connected? 

LANA:  Yes. You know how we think in Western English, I guess in the English language translate into kind of my nêhiyaw view of medicine is, you know, in our Western world, we see medicine as something that will help, you know, restore balance within our body, you know. But it's the same for Indigenous, but we also include emotional restoration. Spiritual restoration and mental restoration of rebalancing. I often have. I don't really appreciate the word heal in this sense because you know, how much healing do you do before you're healed, right? Like there's this end product of healed. Life is about you know those; it's about moving in this world in from that Cree world view miyopimatisowin of living this good life. But really, it's about moving and learning through those challenges and it's constantly about balancing between, you know, the mental, emotional, physical and spiritual. So, medicine is about restoring that harmony constantly. So, you may, you know, get a little off balance by, you know, anger or, you know, or even some physical sickness. So how do we how do we restore and rebalance to create that harmony back into our life? And so, medicine is almost it's this it's a verb. It's a noun. It's an adjective. It is about it's a very descriptive word about, you know, medicine can be harmful. Medicine can also be supportive and helpful in that restoration. So, we always have that agency in authority to decide how to bring back balance. Right. And so, medicine is that way. It's so open of how do you restore that balance in your life and in your mind and in your heart?  

HEATHER:  So if medicine is at least in some ways about hopefully bringing back balance, and if I'm correct in understanding that often for artists, ceremony helps to launch a project in a good way and help people to feel connected to the project and make sure that the work is following good relations and good protocols. How would you explain to me how the work of a multimedia artist is also ceremony?  

LANA:  Yeah. A ceremony so personal, like our spirit, our nêhiyaw spirituality is a very personal. It's part of the I to the we of how we get to that connection of the self, to all of our relations, all of our kinship, which means more. It means more than just our kinship to humans, but are more than humans. It's the land, the elements, the plants, the, you know, our animals, the birds. All of those are anything that is breathing and living and growing our relatives. And so, when we talk about ceremony, it's the way of, again, learning how to be a good relative with all of our living relations. And so, for me, it is through art. It's through, you know, our collective ceremonies within communities. It could be even walking, right walking. I hear of so many people are using ceremony in that way. I've heard, you know, even athletes, Indigenous athletes talk about running or their physical activity as being their ceremony because it's helping them to restore and come into their strength, their power, their authority. You know, that self-determination of balance not only to themselves, but to others as well.  

HEATHER:  So, with all of that in mind, would you be able to tell us about some of the creative projects that you've been working on that you find really satisfying or rewarding or enriching in those ways? 

LANA:  Oh, my gosh. Yes, I can. I'm a little emotional because it's such a it is my heart work with, you know, we're mentioning heart with art and emphasized in that, that heart work it really is. As I mentioned earlier about my research work which was a seven year project within my community of looking at sexual health and how, you know, the community really shared lots of recommendations of how we can restore sexual health and the importance of even talking about that, because sexual health is so impacted by colonialism, by trauma, by poverty, like all these determinants of health and how, you know, in our especially to our kinship, our children, our families, our communities. And so when the project ended and I moved to, you know, to the university again, I went into a community, our cultural ceremonies, and to get some clarity and guidance on a now how do I continue this work around our sexual health? And so through that process, I was reminded about the importance to focus actually on our gender and sexual diverse relatives. As a mother of a trans male I or in Cree we call, you know, ihkwwêw. We, I was, you know, the grandmothers shared if you want to end gender and sexual violence, focus on our gender diverse. They're the ones who carry again that medicine and the knowledge and skills and energy to help bring balance and to help end gender and sexual violence.  

And so, the project I'm working on now is on creating an inclusive rites of passage for our urban gender and sexual diverse youth. And as much as we try to focus on the youth, we see a lot of adults and even, you know, our older generation who want to go through their rites of passage because they never experienced that. And really, when that rites of passage, the importance of it is it is just is sharing our traditional knowledge on how actually expansive and fluid gender is. Like, gender in the English word doesn't even reflects the diversity and fluidness of the roles and responsibilities we each had as human beings. That really didn't depend on whether the sex we were born with. It really depended on the spirit of who we are. And that's what we learned from our you know, I learned from being at Blue Quills was through our ceremonies and just reconnecting to our language. nêhiyawêwin Cree language is spirit always comes first. Could you imagine if we went through this life looking beyond the physical being of another and saw their spirit? What if we could see when their spirit is hurting or when their spirit is so bright and powerful that we know they would be healing, not healing -sorry-but so helpful and supportive in other people's journey to restore balance in their life? Right. And that's what grandparents would do. That's what our parents would do. Are our radical aunties and uncles would help us do in our kinship systems. And so, yeah, I it's a learning. It’s lots of learning for myself because I'm just again, I am working really hard on retaining and learning the language.  

Even though I was I grew up with Cree speakers. It wasn't taught, you know, to us generation. Out of my grandmother's 50 grandchildren, over 50 grandchildren, only one of one of my cousins fluently speak it. And it was because he just lived up the road from my grandparents. So, he's always there. But when you're learning and that language of this land and how important, you know, returning to our Indigenous languages, the languages of this land, it gives you a complete different worldview in way of protocols on how to live as a better human being. So, the part of our many activities that we do and in this in my, we call it, we actually received a name for our group and it's called The Humble Lodge. And so, we are and because of that name for our little community, is that what does that even mean? How do we how do we express that through our work now? How do we be humble? Which is a really big question.  

HEATHER:  So I'm very sorry to interrupt. You have that word nêhiyawêwin well to do.  

LANA:  Oh, yes, yes, yes. It is-sorry-I'm still, again, I'm still learning my own language.  

HEATHER:  Well, I'm asking you to switch languages, too.  

LANA:  Switch my brain. Yet tapahtêyimôkamik. Sorry. I'm going to say this one more time. tapahtêyimôkamik.  

HEATHER:  Oh, thanks for sharing that beautiful, humble lodge. Wow. Beautiful. Yeah. There's a lot of different ideas that you were reminding me of. You reminded me of how Roxanne Tootoosis used to talk about how the spirit sees light in all people and all lesser light. And that seems like a really important element. So, I feel like you're speaking to Spirit. I also feel like from your conversations about sexual health, you're obviously speaking about the health sector, too, and you're a creator. And so, we know you're an interdisciplinary artist in ways that are about arts practices, but also at bringing in all of these other ideas, which I think is really incredible. And when we were preparing for this, we also talked about how you prioritize community engagement in your work and how that is a key point for you. So, I guess I was wondering if we could talk a little bit also about how your community engagement benefits your creative practice and your creative practice gets to be benefited by the community engaged work, how that relationship follows.  

LANA:  Yes. It's all about reciprocity. Thank you for mentioning Ms. Roxanne Tootoosis. She was actually very important to this work as well. Her, myself and my husband actually began the first Indigenous Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gay PFLAG and so that actually is pretty foundational to this work. It's the continuation. There's so many layers, right, off braiding in all of this work. Everything I'm engaged with, I'm like, okay, how can I further this? And so, with Roxanne, we would actually have our monthly gatherings at MacEwan University in kihêw waciston, and she would cook us neck bones and potatoes, and we would gather and circle and start with a smudging ceremony. And we would invite families to come and talk about what is, you know, about parenting, about relations, about our health, and especially of how to support our gender diverse children and relatives. And so, she was really our matriarch. And when we began working on this, she had to, of course, step back to focus on her own health. And so, we-shoot. But she was always there, too. When I'd call her, I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. I can't do this without you. And she was like, you can do it. You got, you know, your mother, your grandmother. You can, you know, this is, you know what to do. So, she was a huge cheerleader. And so, again, you know, as a mother and grandmother, that is my role and responsibility. And as an auntie and a wife, it is my responsibility to make sure that we are caring for our children. You know, and that we are doing what we can. That we are constantly creating that space to help them grow into strong, healthy, independent, courageous human beings who are connected to who they are, as nêhiyawak as four-part beings of this land.  

And so, when it comes to community engagement coming back to this. Throughout all of my, the work, I've done with my community, it is all about that future generation which in my present movement in this life is to that is our future generations that really help inform my work. And there's so many incredible I would even say majority of matriarchs are the mothers, the aunties, the grandmothers with of course, some grandfathers. And like my husband, a father who want to make sure that we are contributing to making this world a better place for our gender diverse. Children and relatives to thrive and to be able to live miyopamatisowin without being threatened because of who they are, because of how their spirit wants to move on this physical world. And so, as an artist from my from that research I did in when I was working at Blue Quills, we were working with the prenatal program. And I was I wanted to make sure that the work I'm contributing to were stories or narrative strength-based stories and narratives. I definitely do not want to contribute to research of deficit. Our future generations do not need to know, you know, I mean, it's important to acknowledge which we do, but to also guide them on how we come again into those stories of authority and agency. And so we worked with I worked with knowledge keepers, elders, language speakers who wanted to share, you know, knowledge at least little nuggets of knowledge to help inspire and provoke curiosity to learn more.  

So, I created my first digital stories around that to teach, you know, give little teachings on your ohtisiy, your bellybutton connections. I worked with Dr. Darlene Auger on swing and moss bag teachings and so these were, you know, were to make sure that what we're doing that the research creates resources for community and that and that it's intergenerational. So it's not you know a lot of in Western institutions they prioritize journals, you know, to for other academics and government and you know, but for me, as a community engaged scholartist, I want to make sure I'm creating resources for my community and for those future generations who are disconnected from our traditional knowledge and stories that they have resources where they can look up and Google, you know, Indigenous women and not only be confronted by the, you know, the violence on Indigenous women, but they have oh, you know, look at the bellybutton teachings. Look at, you know, our beautiful stories of the roles of grandmothers, of the roles of spirit through pregnancy and caring and loving our future generations, our babies. So, I'm and yeah, they're our families are communities making sure we have those good relations so that they are. I am constantly getting my guidance from my community, from my children and to help with their future generations as well.  

HEATHER:  Oh, wow. So, in that conversation, I heard you mention relationships and reciprocity, and I heard you mentioned four-part beings and creative work and knowledge, work being of value to community. And I think that these are all and, of course, the importance of our children and all of these ideas, I think, are really important in thinking about you also as an Indigenous woman who runs her own business, you started a business in the arts and cultural sector and I'm curious about your inspiration for that creation of that business and also about how all of those values make that work special. Oh, wow. Again, many layers answers to that. First and foremost, it was I mean, I've always dreamt of having, you know, wanting to support because I taught art and artist program at Blue Quills. I've seen artists sell their work at pawnshops or, you know, just to get money for gas and food. I'm like, Oh, I wish we had an Indigenous, you know, gallery that would promote and support our local Indigenous artists and that values that work, that values the stories of that work. So I was I never thought it would be me who would do that. But during COVID, I had two children, unemployed children who one who graduated during COVID. All of his plans were out the window. You know, that was such an important rites of passage. And then I have my daughter, who was just burnt out, who's a nurse, who was burnt out, and she could just couldn't do that. Like her wellness was, you know, impacted by that work, the health field work. And so I just commend all of those, you know, those who work, and helping our people in the health sector, and so with that, my children both were unemployed. It was really difficult to find jobs for them. And so, part of opening the gallery and it was an opportunity that also came because of I had my auntie and Uncle Joanne and Jerry Saddleback who had this space already and an art and tea house. And so, they asked if we would carry it on. And so, we renamed it and kind of rebranded it. And I actually said no to it about four times.  

But my very supportive, you know, husband. Yeah, I'm very I'm trying to say, how do I say stubborn and you know, Superman husband and so he is like, yeah, he's like, why don't we see if the kids want to take this on? All my children are very, of course, creative in their own ways. And so, they said yes. And we're really, really like came into some new skills and knowledge around that. And they both quit because they couldn't work with mom and dad. But we, we ended up collaborating with Pei Pei Chei Ow Scott and Sveta Iserhoff and he's actually in Toronto right now receiving an award for from En Route magazine for best kind of food experience. So, collaboration, again, is so important to this reciprocity of receiving and giving back and supporting one another and to help with that economic security of our of our relatives, you know. So, yeah, it's again and many layered answers to a question.  

HEATHER:  And it sounds like you're seeing opportunities as ways to create new stories or extending stories that are already there, too.  

LANA:  Yeah. When you're working in community and with spirit, these it's just a kind of a very fluid way, again, of moving through this, of listening and responding with action. And that's what truth and reconciliation is, too. Or I've heard other reconcile-action, you know, of wanting. But within our community, you know, and even with this collaboration, is we're opening up to the public to come and experience Indigenous stories through art, through food, through conversations, through language, because we have different events as well in the art space. So this is, you know, a way of keeping connected to our community, you know, in general in Edmonton, but also with my work within the academy of being connected to the importance of being able to contribute heart work that will hopefully impact these systems that have been oppressive to our nêhiyaw. ayisiniwak are people, the original peoples of this land.  

HEATHER:  Thank you for sharing that. I wanted to ask some other questions I bet listeners do too about multi-sensory kinds of experiences that you're creating and interdisciplinary arts practices and ways of knowing. But we're really close to out of time here. And so, I think that I should turn it back to you and ask you if there are a few more things that you'd like us to know or to hear about. Is there anything that you'd like to add right now?  

LANA:  Oh, I, mean, I, I think I'm probably will like, oh, I should have said this afterwards, but I really like being in the spirit of conversation and appreciate this reciprocity of, you know, going back and forth of provoking, you know, inspiration or of conversations or of, of learning. And, and even for me, just remembering this is like bringing up Roxanne, remembering all of those who actually came into my life to help me to get where I am right now my aunts, my uncles, my mentors, my extended family, you know, of my spiritual family who have helped. Like there's so many people that contributed to where I'm at now. So, I'm and never, ever would think I do this work on my own, but that I am constantly doing it. I am where I am because of the quality of the relationships I have. And I'm so grateful for that. And, and yeah. And for people and, and organizations like you who are asking and sharing with more people. I appreciate that so much.  

HEATHER:  Well, thanks for that. I don't think that this kind of conversation really comes to a close either. Like you mentioned, all of these relationships and the ongoing and the more the bigger ideas. And I have more questions, but um, because we do have to end this moment. Are there any resources that you think that our listeners should be aware of? Can you name your gallery space again?  

LANA:  Yeah. So, I have an artist website, lanawhiskeyjack.ca that has links to a lot of the digital stories that I share. Any of the events that I have, actually, we didn't talk about 13 moons, but that will hopefully be in, in a gallery in the New Year. Um, and then a public, you know, a provincial gallery next year and then my, our gallery of Whiskeyjack Art House, Pei Pei Chei Ow, which of course also houses Pei Pei Chei Ow catering. So very Indigenous fusion and inspired cuisine. And we have many events like last week we had a Drag and Bannock show of having our Indigenous house, our Indigenous drag queens come and perform and also eating some, you know, bannock and other delicious cuisine provided by Pei Pei Chei Ow. So, there's the those as well as yeah, there's so many wonderful work out there by many organizations from Indigenous Knowledge and Wisdom Center, kihciy askiy here in Edmonton, which is a ceremonial space for urban ceremonial space of again being able to provide land based learning as well as ceremony for urban Indigenous people, but also creating good relations with, with Edmonton community. Um, yeah.  

HEATHER:  Well and since you mentioned it and because it feels unfinished too much unfinished 13 moons, is it going to be presented here in Edmonton as well or beyond?  

LANA:  Yeah, in Edmonton for sure. I have been asked many times if it will travel across Canada, so I don't have enough time to be an artist and a business person. And I'm hoping that, yes, that it will travel across Canada. So, I've had some people kind of reach out and say, how can I help? And I love that because we need, we do need as Indigenous organizations and leadership who are doing really good work. It would be great to, you know, offer some support with resources that you have that can help make some of this bring this work to broader communities, especially to our Canadian relatives.  

HEATHER:  And can people imagine that work is going to be primarily visual art and video? Because I don't think you gave it a description of what it exactly is looking to become.  

LANA:  Yes. So I do have a YouTube channel as well, an artist, Lana Whiskeyjack YouTube channel that houses a lot of these digital stories, including one on my 13 Moon paintings, which is about exploring my exploration during covid, of looking at the language and those teachings of our Cree calendar. And so, it's a very personal kind of exploration as an Indigenous woman, but also looking at that gender diversity, too, but from a, you know, an iskwêw perspective.  

HEATHER:  Right. Wow. Well, I hope that that gives listeners an opportunity to start thinking and searching and finding out more. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for joining me today. It's been a real pleasure to chat with you.  

LANA:  Thank you. I love talking about art. It's how I got into my talk.  

OUTRO 

This show was created by executive producer and host Annetta Latham, Technical Producer Paul Johnston and research assistants Terri Le Gear, Micah Carter and Ian Small.  

Theme music by Emily Darfur and cover art by Constanza Pacher. Special thanks to MacEwan University for their support and to our guests. Arts Conversations is a production of Artful Creative, all rights reserved.  

REFERENCE 

Latham, A. (Executive Producer). Fitzsimmons Frey, H (Host). (2022, November 1) [Season 3: Episode 05]. Lana Whiskeyjack. Podcast retrieved from: www.artfulconversations.com 

Ep. 5: Martin Boersma

Ep. 3: Julian Mayne