Artful Conversations 2020 Joshua Semchuk Interview
Welcome to Artful Conversations - a podcast about arts and cultural management. Hosts Annetta Latham and Katrina Ingram, interview leaders who help shape the world of arts and culture. We share their stories, their insights and observations. This podcast season has been brought to you with the support of MacEwan University and The Rozsa Foundation.
Welcome to Artful Conversations, I'm your host, Katrina Ingram. Today my guest is Joshua Semchuk. He's known as a Project Jedi at Bottom Line Productions. Joshua has a Bachelor of Fine Arts from the University of Alberta in theater and film production, communications operations and administration, and a master's of organizational leadership from Colorado State University.
He's worked in communications, marketing and strategic management and planning since 2002. Most of his experience is in theater, dance, film, events and visual art, including his role as communications manager for the Citadel Theater, Unit publicist for Christmas in Wonderland and production director for the Ukrainian Shumka Dancers. Welcome, Joshua.
JOSHUA: Hi. Thank you for having me.
KATRINA: So great to have you on the podcast today. I want to talk a bit more about the history and the mandate of Bottom Line Productions. So can you share a little bit about that with us?
JOSHUA: Bottom Line Productions is almost three decades in existence, over twenty seven years, run by the wonderful, one of my best friends and colleagues, Darka Tarnawsky. It's her company. She started it. She still sits, of course, at the head of it and runs it. She's our quarterback. We all give ourselves different names. You mentioned the project Jedi part offensive coordinator. I like to call her, but every once in a while, if we need something because you bounce an idea off of somebody, she's the best one to do it and she's completely objective. So as the quarterback or the head coach, you can go in and say, OK, we’re doing this. And she believes that we're here to build buzz and we completely buy into that. We build buzz for companies, for people, for projects, experiences that people want to be a part of.
KATRINA: That's amazing. And you’ve been doing that for twenty seven years. That's a long time. Now you have been quoted as saying that you have waited your entire career to join Bottom Line Productions, and that's a pretty bold statement. So tell me a bit more about that.
JOSHUA: Yeah, yeah, I first started working with my friends at BLP when I was at the Citadel and we would cross paths. Shumka was doing The Nutcracker at the time and, or there would be projects that would happen that we would find a cross promotional opportunity, that sort of thing. Who was there at the time - there was Liz Lepper and Jenn was there, Darka of course, and it felt like such a creative environment because of that, go into the room and toss around ideas. And not to say that places where I worked weren't. We had great teams at the Citadel where I was working and people who were completely bought into the process and all felt, if we that we completely agree with everything that's happening and we love the product on stage. But for whatever reason, BLP held this attraction. I realized later because there was such a variety of stuff and it was never the same client twice, even though you may work with somebody for an entire season and then onwards, you could work with that and then go to something else and try something there, or work within this or someone else may be working on a project and have to have an idea. And let's try this or how does this connect? So it was all these different places and runs and tries of stuff and and it felt like, well, we could. There's never really anything finished, there's always something more to do, always that something that's this variety. I have this poster on my wall somewhere. It's called No Arrival, and it makes me feel good every time I see it, because it reminds me that even though something maybe like a project may have closed because it's closing night, it's never really done. There's something else that's coming next and it grounds you a bit.
KATRINA: I love that description. You're talking about working with people that you enjoy working with, doing fun projects. The work is a variety of things, which sounds amazing. And you've got an awesome title, Project Jedi, so I have to ask about that. You know, did you choose that title and what exactly does a Project Jedi do?
JOSHUA: Well, everybody is a project manager at BLP, at one point we all decided, I think Kate and Darka and I, we were kind of thinking for such a creative environment, we have pretty dull titles and maybe we should come up with some great different titles that kind of describe who we are. Hence the head coach, offensive coordinator for Darko and her love of football and being in our office, especially the Edmonton Football Club.
And Kate took a long time. I hope she's listening to this, because she took a long time to come up with her title of Project Ambassador. But it makes perfect sense for what she does and how she does it. And for me, I always felt that Jedi, because they were so connected with the environment around them and the people who they were working with, I always love the clients that we work with. I feel a deep connection to them and the force is strong between us. Oh, that sounds so cheesy, but it's so true.
KATRINA: I love that I'm just imagining that you've got like a lightsaber under your desk or something. OK, well, let's talk about specifics here. So tell us a bit about like and I know there's probably not a typical day at work, but tell us about a typical day.
JOSHUA: There's a lot of, often it'll start with reviewing people's social feeds, websites, reading through media materials, finding out who is mentioned where and how, updating feeds, posting new stuff that people can start consuming right away in the morning depending on who the client is. Sometimes that waits until the afternoon so that people who are engaged with it are into the evening. Phone calls happen right away because we're working in different time zones, especially on the East Coast or in eastern Canada, sometimes on the other side of the planet when it's clients in different countries like Ukraine. And then you find that the morning disappears really quickly and especially with the meetings that happen, because the best time to get our clients is in the morning before they go into rehearsal at 10 o'clock, or if they've been in a show the night before, then the best time to get them is just somewhere around 10:00, 11:00. And then you have the afternoon to work on all of those projects, those proposals, those outlines and sort of deal with the email, where you get all these emails and you really like stress. But if you just think I'm going to go from the very bottom and work my way up, you get through it all.
KATRINA: That’s amazing. I'm just imagining too, you mentioned working with clients in the arts and even the small things like making sure you don't call them at six a.m. when they were up until midnight working on a production, just knowing when to engage with them. Do you have any interesting stories about working with clients in the arts? What's it like working with artists as clients?
JOSHUA: Artists are the most creative people because they have this project that they are an expression of themselves. And it can be a very emotional undertaking for an artist because they've put everything that they have in it, whether they're directing it or designing it or they're performing in it. And even if people are producing stuff where we work with events and festivals and they might not have an artistic role to play because they've hired artists, they believe in the root cause of what the festival or the event represents and the audiences to whom they're trying to cater. And so it's super important that you respect that belief system that they have. Now, you may never, there's, because art is so subjective and events and experiences are so subjective, it's really important that even though you may not agree with what you see or you're not the kind of experience that you have isn't something that you would normally do, to find the positives stepping outside of yourself to know that there are people who appreciate this kind of an experience, this kind of presentation, and most importantly, the artist. It's something that I've, that at the beginning of my career I would struggle with, because I kept thinking that, well, if I pretend to like this, am I being fake? And then I realized, well, there was reason to pretend because there was always something to take from a piece of art or an experience or a festival. And the most important part of it is that if it provokes conversation, then it has an impact. If the bad review comes out and people are talking about it, it's not a bad thing. So you go, coming full circle to the sensitivity of that artist, I've had many conversations where a bad review provokes conversation and that can really help the artist and the artist’s project because people will want to experience or at least are having a conversation about why they feel the way they do about it.
KATRINA: Yeah, it reminds me of that old adage, there's no such thing as bad press. And I think it's really interesting how you describe framing this process for yourself, because let's face it, we can't like everything. I mean, art, as you say, is not you know, it's not there for everyone in every way necessarily. But, there's always something that you can find to kind of wrap your head around and work for that person as a client. And just kind of digging into that a little bit, I want to talk a bit more about the process that you have at Bottom Line. So you talk about being builders of buzz, community informers, crowd builders. What exactly does that look like? Where do you start with a new client and then what does that process look like?
JOSHUA: We challenge our clients to describe what it is that they're doing and contain it. Tell us what this is about. And some, and we put them on the spot and sometimes they're like dammit, or they're like, oh, OK, because it forces them to take that vision that you and I were talking about, that experience, that perception of themselves that they have and articulate it in a way that we can understand, because if we can't understand, then it's tough to have other people understand it. And that's where the relationship starts to blossom.
And that's where it starts to become this great collaboration. Because every time somebody is able to say, well, this is what I feel about it, this is what I think it's going to be. And this sounds great. This is, let's work on how we take certain pieces of it. What you said there, what someone's going to experience here. Now let's flesh it out. And how do we write it out? How do we design it graphically? How do we tell people? How do we show them in one single image that if that's compelling enough to say, wow, I have to be a part of that, or whose name is a part of it and, or where is it going to be and when? And you might think that price point can matter too and the four P’s of marketing, which we're all a big fan of, price is important. But over time, with experiences and events and art, what I've learned is that if somebody really wants to see something and experience something, they'll pay for it.
KATRINA: Yeah, yeah. It's really about the idea of creating value. When I hear you talk about that versus the actual price point, it's the value of that experience.
JOSHUA: Absolutely. Which goes back to what you're saying is that you cannot possibly be all things to all people. You can't possibly like everything. There will be things that you do like, and at that point you're going to want to pay to consume it.
KATRINA: Amazing. Well, I want to talk a bit more about something that you really like, that you're really passionate about, and that's the Ukrainian Shumka dancers. Can you tell us a bit more about their mission and the vision? What's the focus for the group?
JOSHUA: They’ve existed for over 60 years to tell the Canadian Ukrainian experience through dance. Some of it is very, very folksy, very storybook theater - has a beginning, has a middle of an end, tells about a boy meets girl, falls in love, somebody gets kidnapped, somebody gets rescued, they get married, everybody lives happily ever after.
KATRINA: Did you say somebody gets kidnaped, somebody gets rescued. Who knows, right?
JOSHUA: Yeah, I know when you describe it that way, but when you're watching it like, that's totally plausible. That fly just got kidnapped by those cockroaches, kidnapped by the cockroaches. Go see mosquitoes waiting, you know what I mean? But sometimes it's very thematic.
And that kind of storytelling, that kind of story book theater is far more complex to to tell, to recreate and from a design perspective, from a music perspective and from a choreography perspective, it doesn't have a beginning, a middle and an end persay, but it still gets it still brings out a story and an experience about the people on stage that people in the audience can relate to in some way.
KATRINA: Yeah, that is super interesting. Now, in this, in your connection to Chemica, you're the production director, as I understand it. Can you talk a bit more about the work that you're doing? What is the production director? What do you do?
JOSHUA: It all started being stage manager and basically calling shows and we had a very straightforward way of doing it. We put a dance floor down and then we set the lights and and we have, and everyone has costumes and they run around and we work, and everyone works really hard. And then we put it in a box and take it somewhere else and put it up. But as the projects become, the production has become more complex. The lighting became, a far more complex thing, the sets we started building. And suddenly there was a need to build everything from scratch in a way that could tour really easily, could be set up properly, could work within the union structure where we work with the associated designers of Canada with IATSE, of course, with the American Federation of Musicians. We believe in those relationships. And we make sure that the stuff that we're doing has that communication in that language, and so the production director role is the bridge between all of that and artistic. And the team that is in Shumka right now truly understands how that process works. There's a ton of respect around it. This is designed this way. Let's have the conversation about what it looks like when Shumka started moving into heavy projection territory that required a very specific skill set and how it was choreographed, how the projections themselves were choreographed to the music and how the dancing interacted with them. It was building this stuff when you're looking at it and you think this is incredible. It's extremely complex. We have a very short time frame to do it. And then it comes together and you realize, yep, that's that's worth it.
KATRINA: That's why that's amazing. And so out of those 60 years that it's been around, you've been involved for 13, which is a super long time over a decade. And you've talked a bit about some of the values and the vision and some of the growth that's happened at Shumka, can you talk a bit more about the values that keep you connected to an organization for that length of time?
JOSHUA: It's like I was saying before, it's truly about the people and it goes back to what you and I were talking about before, even with BLP, I think there may be a pattern here, which is when it comes to clients, when it comes to the people I work with, Bottom Line Productions or Schumka the team approach is very important to me. It's always been very family style because you have to believe that you can have a conversation and it can be an honest one and it can be direct and you can walk away and not have to feel as though the world is falling apart. There's no drama that way. There's two decals on my laptop that Darka gave me and one of them is, got a dinosaur silhouette with a line through it and another one has the word drama with a line through it, like a circle and the lines.
And I was, it was funny. I was traveling, I was driving one of the artistic directors of Cirque du Soleil’s Kurios around a couple of years ago. And we were doing interviews and he saw the decal. And he said, oh, no, dinosaurs - never get stuck in ‘the doing’ things the way that you've done in the past. That's exactly it. That's exactly it has nothing to do with not having a Tyrannosaurus Rex around. And so it's all about just because we've done it that way doesn't mean that we have to continue doing it for - the no more dinosaur, no dinosaur thinking and that thinking, that approach to the no drama, the no dinosaurs has been a focus of where I've been in Shumka for that for this decade, it is it is absolutely necessary to be able to have done the things that we've all done as teams.
KATRINA: I love that. No drama and no getting stuck in the past. No dinosaurs. I love it. No dinosaurs. But I do want to talk a bit more about your path. We're going to dig way back here. We're going to go back to your time at the Citadel Theatre. I mean, you worked as a sales rep then a publicist and finally communications manager at the city.
JOSHUA: How did you know all this?
KATRINA: We dug deep. We did a background check on you here, but I want to hear more about this. Can you talk a bit about the progression? What was it like kind of moving through those roles and maybe a bit about the work that you did in each role?
JOSHUA: When I graduated from the BFA, from the University of Alberta in theater and film production, 2002. I loved, loved, loved the organizational principle behind how productions happened, how people spoke to each other, how production managers and technical directors spoke to the artisans in each department, and how they communicated with designers and then how directors talked to all of them. And so I wanted to be a part of the operations of art. And that's what eventually led me to where I am now, it was so attractive for that because it was all in one contained spot and it was a really compelling place that had good memories of it. Visiting there when I was a kid and seeing Citadel School Productions, which had started under Shockter when I was very, very young and the only opening was in group sales. So I thought, OK, well, what the hell? And I applied and I got it. And I didn't think I would, but I got it. And while working in group sales, it was one of those things where that thing had to be done and there was nobody to do it. So the right place, right time. And some of the media relations stuff came up and I said, OK, great, let me do it, I'd love to try that. Let me work with that. And some of the communications writing, some of the marketing stuff.
I found that I had a knack for taglines and for understanding how a graphic design would encapsulate what a piece of art would be that's on stage and working with a graphic designer who, and articulating it, but understanding that was their medium. And how do we have those conversations? And then I was, that's when I was truly involved in all of these people who have these different skill sets, talking about how they use their skill sets to help benefit the experience of being a part of this stuff for the audiences. And so it just moved on from there. And then there was more marketing and then there was more PR and then there was media relations that grew. And there was a lot of media back then. I mean, there is still a lot of media. I think people misconceive that well, just because we're online and we don't have as much. But we still do, there's a lot, it's just how you manage it and who can do what and how they're how they want to. It's all about what the deliverables are. I remember working to ensure that View and See and the Journal never had the same story and the same image. For example, it was respecting that they all had something that audiences do, and how do we communicate with them so that they can communicate effectively to their audiences.
KATRINA: Yeah, that's amazing. And I love that story because it really shows that, you know, you saw an opening. It wasn't quite exactly perhaps the thing that was, that you aspired to. But there was an opening in the organization you aspired to work with, in the field that you aspire to. And then you are able, once you're on the inside of this, to kind of see, oh, this also needs to be done and that needs to be done. And I think that's really good advice for people, especially when they're starting out in their career . Don't be afraid to say yes to an opportunity, even if it's not exactly what you want to do. In the end, it kind of gets you in the door and moves you forward. So I love that.
JOSHUA: You're absolutely right. I remember thinking, oh, man, this is group sales. I'm twenty seven years old and I have a university degree. And of course that's where you are at that time. Looking back on it now, it was very great. It was a very fun place. I was very fortunate to have been there at the right place at the right time. And I would totally express what you're saying now in that it's never, getting work is never a bad thing. And if it's not quite where you think it should be because you feel well, I deserve to do this because of this background that I have or this degree, you may not get that opportunity right out of the gate and you're going to have to get your foot in the door and really put your head down and listen and find out what people are saying and how they're doing it and really try to embed yourself in the culture, rather than feeling the world owes me this.
KATRINA: Yeah, I think that's fantastic advice. I want to segway and talk a bit more about the media, because you did mention the media and it's obviously been changing and morphing and there was a lot going on in that world. Can you talk a bit about the role of media when it comes to cultural events and projects?
JOSHUA: The mass media still has a role and always will in informing, and social media is another form of word of mouth. And there's really compelling ways to deal with both. There's people who are talking about, well you can post in this manner. You posted this time that this particular social feed is best for this kind of long form content, whereas this one is really good for images, that sort of thing. And then overriding all of it are brands that are one hundred and five years old or even older that still have very, very specific journalistic integrity. They provide investigative, they provide good research. People flock to them because they are a trusted source for information. That will always have value and as people, as we as new media starts to build up that kind of integrity or people who are working online or who are writing blogs or who are working as influencers over years and decades, they'll have earned that same respect. Many of them are earning it now. And there's always a place for the kind of art and experiences and events that we do with people who work in both mediums, whether it's new media or traditional. There's always something compelling for them to consume, to talk about and for their readers to experience.
KATRINA: Yeah, you bring up some really good points. And I think central to all of this is this idea of trust. And as you've said, there are media properties that have built up their brand and their trust over decades and even centuries. And trust is such a commodity that we need these days as we're trying to navigate some of the misinformation or disinformation that's out there. And one thing that I've noticed myself is just that there seems to be more and more, so on top of the existing media properties, now we're layering on social media and there seems to be a new social media platform every time you turn your head. So I'm wondering how you stay on top of all of this.
JOSHUA: That's the fun part. That's the stuff that you talk about what does the day look like? You're constantly researching new things. You're constantly looking at who's doing what. And some of it could work. Some of it may not. Some of it you wait to see. I remember planning to do something on Vine about five years ago and then it disappeared. I remember having a conversation in the office about Tic Tok, and we all came to a consensus that this was about a year and a half ago, that it wasn't a fit for the kind of stuff that we were doing at the time. Now, what we've learned is that it evolves. It changes. We would never have known a year ago that Facebook Live would be the place to host live music from the Yardbird. And now they're even offering the opportunity to pay to have a paywall for it, as long as you are have an open mind that nothing is set in stone. And I truly believe that from websites to social feeds to logos to how we describe companies, nothing is set in stone. And you always have to be considering what can I, how does this particular service how does this online media, this traditional media, how does it fit with what our clients need at any particular time?
KATRINA: Yeah, that is so interesting. And I think you're right about this idea of being open minded and the thing that, you know, I remember Vine as well, and it was here today, gone tomorrow. But there, you know, I've heard that YouTube is going to be offering short videos pretty soon; they're testing it out in India. So we may have a Vine like thing that comes back in a different form. And it is really interesting. But it sounds to me, I mean, it can also feel daunting. It sounds like you've decided to embrace this. Do you ever get overwhelmed at all or is it just like, oh, this is so exciting.
JOSHUA: Yeah. And then I remember the, then I look at the sign on the wall that says no arrival and then I feel better.
KATRINA: That's great. So you've worked in the arts for a really long time. We've talked about a number of roles that you've had over the course of your career. And we talked a little bit about change. I'm wondering what else has changed since you began your career in communication and marketing in the arts? What's changed?
JOSHUA: Having kids, that gives you, that gives you a completely different perspective of things, that's for sure. That's the first thing that comes to my mind as far as the changes in, how we conduct ourselves, I think that art in general has become more open to change. I think that it's embraced the opportunity to tell stories from all kinds of places and not having to be stuck into performing things that are decades or even centuries old, maybe finding a different way to tell something that's five hundred years old, in a context that's today, with people that represent who we are today in the society today. Those kinds of stories, that kind of writing, that kind of ability for audiences to be so voracious for that kind of connection is super inspiring, and that's not to say that it wasn't 10, 15, 20 years ago when I started. There are still people who are going to want to see La Boheme, I mean, it's just going to have to happen. But when La Boheme transitions into Rent and then Rent shows different people in different roles as that evolves, and yet it's still extremely compelling as a message 20 years after it's around. That never gets old for me.
KATRINA: Yeah, that's that's a really great point in how things build on each other and expand. And kind of the breadth of the offering is so rich and shows up again. You mentioned family, you mentioned kids. And I know family is incredibly important to you. Can you talk a bit about how family has maybe changed you and how do you manage all of what you do as Project Jedi along with your family responsibilities?
JOSHUA: I yeah, you know, I think I remember somebody asking me this question a while ago, and I realized that being a dad and having a family, being a husband has taught, well it's two things. Being a dad has taught me patience that I've never imagined that I'd have before. And being a husband has taught me how to communicate in a way that I never would have imagined possible. And all of that is super healthy. It's so good for us emotionally and mentally. And even the difference between having the first kid and then seven years later having the second one, and you realize how much more patient you are from one to the other. It has provided me to respect going back to what we were talking about before that simply because I don't agree with your viewpoint, or what it is that you're trying to produce, or that it's not something that I would necessarily consume on a regular basis doesn't mean that I can't find something that's compelling for me and for other people. Because there's always, always something inherently magical and valuable about, about hearing people, watching people, listening to them, even if you're exhausted at the end of the day and somebody wants to just throw a football, that's very, it's very mentally and emotionally stable to be able to have that.
KATRINA: I love that. That's a fantastic way to think about things. I'm wondering what's in store for you. Where are you going? What do you think the next five years hold?
JOSHUA: I will, and there's no arrival, I would like to always be learning, I'd like to meet. I want to continue meeting great people and working with wonderful people. I'd like to always be surprised and overjoyed by the theatricality of the things that we get to work with, of having those Eureka moments, when you realize, oh, that's how we're going to connect people with this thing or watching something and going, oh, my God, I never thought that was possible. And as long I'm doing this, those will always be, those will always be things that I'm aspiring towards. It'll never arrive. It'll never get there. And that's such a satisfying way to think because there's a Jewish saying in my family: There are at any given time, there are seven really wise people on the planet. But the minute you think you're one of them you aren’t and my grandmother would tell me that, and I've never forgotten it to this day, because it reminds me that there's always something, there's always, always, always something more to learn just in everything you and I have been talking about today, from new media to great working with wonderful people, to experiencing new work and learning from your kids.
KATRINA: Now, that's fantastic, and I think that is a lovely place to end this conversation, I know we could go on and on, but I'm going to stop there. Joshua Semchuk I just want to thank you so much for being here on the podcast today and for sharing your story. Thank you.
JOSHUA: Thank you for having me. It has been wonderful.
Analysis
KATRINA: So I really enjoyed talking with Joshua Semchuk. He was just so much fun Annetta and anyone who relates their role to Star Wars is just someone worth knowing in my books.
ANNETTA: Oh, absolutely. I really love the title. And I think it was a great title for him and fitted him really well. You know one of the things I really liked and that he highlighted was if you want to have all those things like Instagram and Facebook and all that stuff at the bottom of your website or on your name, it takes work, it takes a lot of work.
KATRINA: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it’s not just a matter of kind of doing it a one and done fashion there is an upkeep and maintenance about it. One of the things I appreciated about Joshua as a person is just how eager he was to get started in the arts. And even though he didn't find his perfect career right away, he jumped on the opportunity to take a role that wasn't quite the right fit. But he got a foot in the door, and then he used that experience to kind of move into the role that he really wanted. And I think that's really, really good advice for people. Sometimes we wait and we think, oh, I'll try and find the perfect role. But when you're getting started, it's about kind of getting experience and getting into something rather rather than waiting for that perfect opportunity.
ANNETTA: Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a real take home for all of us. And that is that just say yes. If something comes your way, just say yes. It was a brilliant, brilliant interview. And I think he has left us a lot to think about.
This show was created by Executive Producer and Host Annetta Latham; Co-host Katrina Ingram. Technical Producer Paul Johnston. Research Assistants involved were Caitlin McKinnon and MacEwan bachelor of music students.
Theme Music by Emily Darfur and cover art by Constanza Pacher. Special thanks to the Rose Foundation for their support and to our guests. Artful Conversations is a production of MacEwan University and Assistant Professor Annetta Latham, all rights reserved.
Latham, A. (Executive Producer and Host). Regan-Ingram, K (Host). (2020, October 22) [Season 2: Episode 7]. Joshua Semchuk. Podcast retrieved from: https://www.artfulconversations.com/season-2-1/2021/2/6/ep-2-joshua-semchuk