Artful Conversations 2020 Kelly Reay Interview
Welcome to Artful Conversations - a podcast about arts and cultural management. Hosts Annetta Latham and Katrina Ingram, interview leaders who help shape the world of arts and culture. We share their stories, their insights and observations. This podcast season has been brought to you with the support of MacEwan University and The Rozsa Foundation.
Welcome to Artful Conversations, I'm your host, Annetta Latham. Today my guest is Kelly Reay, artistic director of New West Theatre. Kelly is an award winning theater director, producer and administrator currently based in Lethbridge, Canada. He is a 20-year veteran of the Alberta theater community, currently serving as the artistic director of New West Theatre. He is the former producer - between 2016 and 2018 - of the One Yellow Rabbits High Performance Rodeo and is the former artistic director - between 2004 and 2014 - of Sage Theatre. Kelly has directed productions for numerous companies, including New West Theatre, Vertigo Theatre, Lunchbox Theatre, Shadow Theatre, Downstage Theatre, Sage Theatre and many, many more. Kelly has recently relocated to Lethbridge from Calgary with his talented partner, Nikki and their young daughter. Welcome, Kelly.
KELLY: Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
ANNETTA: Oh, it's wonderful, wonderful to have you here. You have relocated to Calgary, to Lethbridge quite recently. Can you tell us a little bit about making that decision in relation to your career?
KELLY: Sure. So, you know, the move to Lethbridge after close to 20 years in Calgary wasn't something that was ever in the plans. Or ever anticipated it, that we'd be making a mid career relocation to a smaller center. But really what it was, was an amazing career opportunity for my partner. She got offered a tenure track position at the University of Lethbridge in the drama department. And it was kind of a dream job for her and a valuable opportunity. So, you know, after a lot of soul searching, a lot of deliberation, we decided as a family to take the leap and pack up and move down to Lethbridge.
ANNETTA: So for those listeners that we have that are not Canadian based, which we do have an international audience, explain the population difference between Calgary and Lethbridge.
KELLY: Sure. Well, Calgary is a city of over one million people, and Lethbridge is a small city of just over 100,000 people.
ANNETTA: So quite a significant change. Well, I'm so pleased to hear Nicky got such a great job. So what drew you to New West Theatre?
KELLY: Well, I guess that's a good question, because when I came down here, you know, there were not really any job prospects. I was fortunate enough to land in an administrative role at a local arts center and was quite happy there. But then just sheer virtue of good timing, there was a job opportunity at New West Theatre. And, you know, given that theater is my background, is my jam as it were. I saw this as a really, really great opportunity with really opportune timing. So I threw my name in the hat and I was privileged enough to receive the job and haven't really looked back. So to get back to your question, what drew me to New West Theatre? I mean, I think just the opportunity to kind of come back to my theater career and, you know, knowing that there are, you know, New West Theatre, the only large scale professional theater company in town. So I was happy to be a part of the scene here in Lethbridge.
ANNETTA: So hooking on to something that you just said about us being the largest, you know, theatre company in town. So being a small town and in most small towns, there are theater companies like this that are usually kind of the large one. Tell us more about what their mandate is, having that role. And for you, what particular values and their mandate really connected with you.
KELLY: I mean, the mandate of the company is to engage a wide range of audiences through vibrant and diverse theatrical productions and activities. So, you know, really like for me, it's about creating or contributing to cultural vibrancy of a community. And, you know, when you boil down the rhetoric, that's what I think the mandate is to contribute to the cultural vibrancy. So, you know, for me personally, that's to be sort of a big fish in a small pond down here in Lethbridge. There's a responsibility that comes with that to serve the community. You know, I keep coming back to that word cultural vibrancy, to be a part of cultural vibrancy in a small community is a really kind of core value for the company and a core value for myself personally.
ANNETTA: And I love that phrase because I think that's a really important phrase, because cultural vibrancy can really help with connectivity for people in place and all of those kinds of things. And certainly in our current environment, that connectivity is so important and a sense of value to things. So, in relation to working in Lethbridge, which you've done since January 2019, what are some of the similarities or differences in the arts and cultural ecologies between a large city like Calgary and a smaller city like Lethbridge?
KELLY: Sure, I mean, I think, you know, there are many similarities. We're not hugely different. We’re still the same province in the same country, in the same general region, you know, and at the core of, you know, the ecology in each city, you have artists and arts organizations who are committed to contributing to their community, again, to that cultural vibrancy. So, you know, when you boil it down, there's not a lot of real significant differences, you know, where we're all working towards the same goals that we would be working towards, whether we're in a large center or in a small center. I think the main differences lie in scale. Lethbridge, it's obviously a much smaller city. So we don't have the sheer abundance of our artistic activity that you'd find in a major center. But you know what we do here, what we have here is what we have is a strong, committed community and it works well. I think, you know, what maybe a smaller center is missing is a lot of the smaller, maybe more esoteric works that struggle to find a larger audience here. But you know that it's all the sort of esoteric and off the beaten path kind of work still exists here, but it doesn't see the same sort of mainstream appeal as it would in a larger city.
ANNETTA: So going back to your comment about New West Theatres, cultural vibrancy I think more value than mandate. How do you think that works in the larger Lethbridge community? Like what's its biggest contributor as a theater company into the Lethbridge community?
KELLY: Well, I think you look at a company like New West Theatre actually comes from a place of great privilege. We've been operating for over 30 years and the community is actually our 31st season now. And to be blunt about it, we've enjoyed many of the privileges of being a predominantly white institution in Canada. No, but within all that, I think the greatest contribution that the company's made is the contribution of having a long-lasting and sustained cultural impact in our community, because in 1990, when the company was founded, I don't believe there was any professional theatre in town. So building that from scratch and developing an audience that's, you know, 30 years later is still very committed and very dedicated and passionate about the arts and about the work to help play whatever part the companies played in building and fostering that community, I think is one of the most significant contributions.
ANNETTA: So the educational programs that you do are they well received by the community in Lethbridge is there a high engagement level.
KELLY: Yes, certainly. So for context, New West Theatre, we run a year long drama classes and camps for young people and it's that theatre education that explores creativity, collaboration and learning through the arts. And yeah, it is, I think, it's, our education programs have been up and running for over 20 years now. And, you know, are well attended, our engagement is high, you know, and again, it's another way for our organization to contribute to that cultural vibrancy, you know. Engaging young people in artistic pursuits, giving young people exposure to the performing arts. You know, it's helping to cultivate that appreciation and value for the arts at a young age in a way that affects families. So, you know, I think our education programs are just another way for our organizations to serve our community.
ANNETTA: Is there something else with all of your background and knowledge and work in the theater that you think that would be great if New West Theatre could step into that, that they're not currently doing or they're currently doing in a low rate kind of way and you'd love to step it forward?
KELLY: That's an excellent question. I think there's always room for growth in terms of types of programming. I think, you know, historically New West Theatre’s played it pretty safe in a lot of ways, you know, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But I think there's room for higher levels of artistic risk. Maybe there's room for, you know, introduction of some plays or some musicals that maybe aren't part of that pop culture canon, in some ways to kind of push the envelope and push, widen the scope, I guess, what kind of productions are well-received here and what kind of caliber and artistic sort of approach to the work. So there's tons of room for growth. And I think even more importantly than that, I think there's a lot of room for growth in cultural perspectives. Because, you know, we've largely been like so many western institutions, we've largely been focused on white-centered storytelling and those stories. And there's a lot of room for a divergence of cultural perspectives and that kind of thing. And so that's where, you know, after we're on the other end of the pandemic, that's some of the growth that I would like to introduce to the company, see the company expand our approach to.
ANNETTA: That's great. So can you expand on what the actual genre that New West Theatre presents currently and in relation to the expansion that you've been talking about in other areas to explore what you would like that genre to step into when you focus on your role moving forward?
KELLY: Yeah, well, I think, you know, annually New West Theatre, we produce one Broadway style musical, we produce two music comedy reviews, which are largely music review shows that cover the history of popular music. And we have a Canadian series where we do one or two contemporary Canadian plays each year. And then we also offer an annual theatre for young audiences. So looking forward, it's that thing, you know, in a 30-year history, the company's built a great deal of success based on a certain genre and that genre being maybe stuff that's a little more commercially accessible, maybe a little has more broad appeal. But you certainly don't want to ignore the success that's been earned through that kind of work. So you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Yeah, yeah. So for me, it's about taking what works in those kinds of ventures and see how you can, what directions you can go while still preserving that sort of core of what is appealing to the audience. So, for example, Broadway musicals, you can do one of the natural sort of hits is something like the Buddy Holly story. You know, which takes popular music and packages it up in a story that's present and accessible for the audience. So, you know, what I think I've discovered is that our audience likes to hear good music played well. And so taking that, there're so many other applications of that sort of core artistic appeal. And so to me, it's about trying to broaden that and finding ways to allow our audience to hear good music being played well. While you know, maybe serving it in a slightly different package to kind of push that envelope and broaden that appeal.
ANNETTA: So thank you for that. I really appreciate it. It gives us a really nice frame on thinking about how to kind of morph and change a theatre company. For yourself as someone who's worked in a major city, how do you feel bringing your skillset into a smaller city? And what do you think's important in keeping for smaller city theatre companies, keeping in mind what they need to do moving forward, which, you know, because they are competing with the big brother? What's important to them, do you think?
KELLY: Well, I think in my role specifically, one of the most important things is that we're here and I'm here to serve my community. New West Theatre exits to serve our community, and that being the people, residents of southern Alberta. So, you know, I think that's a really important thing to keep in mind, because coming from a big center. You know, you're there to still serve your community, but you serve it in different ways and and so I have to resist the temptation, I think, in a small center, resist the temptation of, you know, well, this is what we do in Calgary. This is what they do in Toronto. This is what they do in Vancouver. And sure, there's lots to learn from those applications, but it's more important for me to understand what are the needs of my community, of the community that I'm serving now, and not to try and say what we're going to do it like we do in Calgary. It's like, no, we're going to do it in a way that best serves the community of Lethbridge and southern Alberta. And so I think, you know, for me, that's an important thing that I keep coming back to. There's lots to learn and lots lots of perspective gained by understanding why things were done in a certain way. But it's all about applying your skills and your knowledge that serves your current community.
ANNETTA: Fantastic, and would you say the resources that a smaller city have are actually quite unique and therefore more enriched, and in their own way very enriching compared to the resources in a big city?
KELLY: I would totally agree with that assessment. I think, you know, for New West Theatre, we kind of benefit from being a large fish in a small pond, particularly a company that does have a 30-plus year history. You know, we're rooted in the community. And you know have a lot of great connections to small businesses, to small to medium sized businesses who are very keen to support, you know. Being a local institution, we have, you know, an awareness and a public willingness to contribute and donate, donate and support. And I think we've really been able to reap the benefits of that, you know, of being a big fish in a small pond. Certainly in a way that, in my experience, in bigger cities, you know, you're fighting amongst many organizations for the same piece of the pie, where as down here, you're still fighting each other or competing between other organizations for the funds. But there's much less competition, it’s much less crowded.
ANNETTA: I think that's a really great segway into kind of audience development, which I'd love to talk about with you now in relation to having done your roles in major cities in a smaller city. What would you say the difference in the audience, resource development tools between the two? You know, you've mentioned being able to engage smaller businesses. What would you say, you know, from your experiences are the real differences between those two cities and with your resource development tools that you now use?
KELLY: It's an excellent question. I mean, you know, I think honestly, the principles are very similar. How you approach resource development is very similar to knowing, knowing the community, you know, and that's been my biggest learning curve and continues to be a big learning curve, just knowing the community, you know, which includes the people in the community, the businesses and the community, the organizations in the community and and then, you know, building your resources piece by piece. You know, the same going into the audience development, building your audience piece by piece, brick by brick, you know, the principles of building relationships and stewardship of those relationships are the same, whether you're in Lethbridge, Calgary, Toronto, you know, it's about building relationships and maintaining relationships. I think, you know, again, you benefit being in a small city that sometimes those relationships are perhaps more accessible in some cases. I don't want to say easier to maintain, but maybe fewer barriers in the maintenance of those relationships.
ANNETTA: So would you say it's kind of a little bit similar if you're a smaller arts organization in a major city compared to the big players, you know, like in the city of Edmonton, we've got the Citadel and a great, great team at the Citadel, but then we have the smaller theater companies that are out there trying to have a go at it and in some ways trying to tap on the door of the same stakeholders and the same audience. So would you say there's a similarity between those things and what you're doing where you are between smaller cities and larger cities?
KELLY: I think there's a similarity for sure. I think, you know, we do really benefit if the dance floor is less crowded down here. Yeah, you know, certainly in my personal experience, that's been one of the main differences. Again, you're competing for a small piece of the pie with many organizations. And down here, the dance floor is less crowded. So it just makes it easier in some ways because those barriers are removed.
ANNETTA: That's fantastic, because I think, you know, a lot of MacEwan arts and cultural management grads move into smaller organizations and there's always that challenge of stakeholder engagement, audience engagement, how do you do it when you feel like you're not the big fish and how do you continue to do that? So, you know, and the decision-making that happens in the smaller organizations can be slightly a little bit different from the big, big, big stuff where these big, big, big money involved. From your experience in relation to decision making, would you say there's a difference in the way arts organization decisions are made in a smaller city than what they were rooted in a bigger city?
KELLY: You know, I don't know if there are major differences, I think, you know, if you're in a bigger city with a larger landscape and you know more people I suppose your decisions are made largely, you know, in consultation with your circumstances, which is the same here where, you know, maybe there are fewer extenuating circumstances or, you know, fewer interconnecting pieces that make the engine go. So it's maybe in a lot of ways a simpler path to decision making. But, you know, I keep coming back to where we're here to serve our community and all decisions need to be made with that lens. Maybe there is a simpler path to that in a smaller center. But I think the principles of how you make those decisions are very similar.
ANNETTA: So in relation to engaging with the community, how has New West navigated this unusual COVID journey with its audience and its stakeholders and things like that?
KELLY: Excellent question. Let me get back to you. I don't know. It's been like obviously a major curveball that none of us had anticipated or necessarily had the experience to deal with. So it's you know, I think a lot of looking at opportunities as they come up, a bit of trial and error, but there is no way to do any long term planning or certainly long term planning is incredibly difficult. So we've kind of had to let go of that idea of what are we doing six months from now and just look at what are we doing over the next three months. And so for us, there have been a few opportunities that have come up by looking at it bit by bit. And in summer, we were able to do a big outdoor drive in production. And that was a production we never would have imagined we would be doing, you know, even six months prior to that. You know, we're currently evaluating what we can do around time in December. And we have a few ideas on the plate. But again, they're all ideas that are able to accommodate, you know, the fact that we find ourselves in the midst of a pandemic right now. So it's really been bit by bit and a bit of trial and error, there's some things that we've done that, you know, you can look back and like, oh, I wish I could have done that differently and you learn from next time, but we all hope there won't be a next.
ANNETTA:. I think one of the things that you've talked about that was really interesting is the having to let go of that future planning. And, you know, for theater companies like yourself, arts festivals and those kinds of things, everybody's usually planning a year to 18 months in advance. And, you know, I say this to the students all the time that what you see a theatre company or arts festival doing now that was planned two years ago, that was kind of like what you see now is like the full stop at the end of the sentence. And if you talk to the artistic directors and the programming team, they're already way in advance. For you as an artistic director, personally, how are you finding that reshaping of having to think differently?
KELLY: It's challenging, but it's also been, I don't know, I hesitate, but there has been something that's been invigorating about it, you know, something about throwing out all your assumptions, or all your plans and kind of going back to square one. Certainly, personally speaking, as someone who is relatively new, I was looking at planning my first full season. And, you know, as someone new in my role, I was, you know, hoping that it might be something that can showcase a little bit, showcase myself, showcase my vision for the company. And and I've had to take that all and kind of put it in the parking lot and, you know, and that's OK. And I think, you know, moving into this new reality. Like everyone else, we're doing the best we can with what we have available to us and making the most of the resources that have become available to us. And, you know, I think all things considered, I'm reasonably happy with how we're doing, how we've done. And as we continue to move along, you know, I think I'm in the same boat as everyone else, hoping this will be over sooner rather than later. But, yeah, we'll do the best we can in the meantime.
ANNETTA: Yeah, well, that's fantastic, because I think that's a real challenge for an artistic director who's new in their role. And like you say, you haven't had your first full season and being able to showcase yourself. It's the same for a curator at a gallery. You know, they've kind of got to wait for the 18 month cycle to run itself out before they get to say, well, this is what I can do. Kelly, it's been absolutely wonderful talking to you today. Is there anything you'd like to add to our conversation that you think would be great for our listeners to hear that we haven't covered?
KELLY: It's an excellent question, I mean, I really appreciated this conversation and, you know, we could go on for hours, but, you know, as I did all my prep and thinking about this, I just keep coming back to that notion of cultural vibrancy. And I think, you know, any community you're serving in, as arts organizations, we exist to contribute to that cultural vibrancy. And, you know, I feel fortunate of being in a very privileged place, of being able to make that contribution. And I think it's an important one to make.
ANNETTA: Look, that is absolutely wonderful. Thank you. And I agree with you. I think cultural vibrancy is what's going to help us all move forward in the next year to two years. And I want to really thank you for your time. I've really appreciated it, it's been a great conversation and I look forward to coming down to Lethbridge and coming to a show.
KELLY: It's been my pleasure. Thank you for having me. I've enjoyed the conversation as well. And if you are ever in Lethbridge, make sure to email, love to have a coffee with you.
ANNETTA: I definitely will, thank you.
Analysis
ANNETTA: Katrina, Kelly was fascinating. What a fascinating man and what an amazing career that he's had. One of the things that I really liked in this interview was that he was, we didn't get into a comparative conversation. He wasn't apologetic for the work that he’s doing in Lethbridge and wasn't sad that he wasn't in Calgary or didn't have the resources in Calgary. And I mean, it was just amazing. And I really love the way that he talked about moving forward and what you can do with stuff and the whole conversation, you know, it wasn't about him going, woe is me, I don't have, it was really interesting. And I think one of the other things that was incredibly significant for me in this conversation was how he supported his partner in their significant life choice. And I just think that is so important as we look at our careers and things to actually also think about the people who are most important in our lives and maybe sometimes put ourselves on the back burner and support them may be the most important, significant career choice that we make. And I, just kudos, all my respect to the man. I was amazed by that. And I thought that was incredibly courageous and earned everybody's respect for doing that. And look what it did for him. It opened up a whole other world.
KATRINA: Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. I really love a guy who makes the move to support his partner's career. I thought that was fantastic. And I think what you're saying about embracing the fact that this is a smaller community and there's some really amazing things that can be done in this, in a smaller community like audience resource development. How do you apply that in a smaller community? In some ways, it might be easier to get to know people, to build community. The dance floor is less crowded, as he was saying, the barriers are removed. So I thought that was truly fantastic. And then the other thing that I loved because early on in COVID, I was saying someone should do a drive in production. And lo and behold, here they were trying this great experiment in light of the pandemic and and taking advantage of the resources like the land that you have in the smaller community to just go and do these things. And I thought that was so cool, just a really innovative and interesting way to kind of take a situation and just run with it and make it work to your advantage. I really love that.
This show was created by Executive Producer and Host Annetta Latham; Co-host Katrina Ingram. Technical Producer Paul Johnston. Research Assistants involved were Caitlin McKinnon and MacEwan bachelor of music students.
Theme Music by Emily Darfur and cover art by Constanza Pacher. Special thanks to the Rose Foundation for their support and to our guests. Artful Conversations is a production of MacEwan University and Assistant Professor Annetta Latham, all rights reserved.
Latham, A. (Executive Producer and Host). Regan-Ingram, K (Host). (2020, October 22) [Season 2: Episode 5]. Kelly Reay. Podcast retrieved from: https://www.artfulconversations.com/season-2-1/2021/2/6/ep-4-kelly-reay-1